To disperse their genetic material, some species of fungus employ a fascinating tactic: ballistic ejection. Undergoing upwards of 20,000 G, these fungi are the fastest accelerating organisms on Earth. The acceleration is so fast that it is invisible to our eyes. Check it out:
That’s right: genetic missiles! It an extraordinary example of evolution.
Science-Based Life 
“It an extraordinary example of evolution.” A remarkably presumptuous phrase. I love how this clip talks about fungi as if it’s alive, solving its own thick air problem. Actually, this is indeed interesting, but is a supportive and ordinary example of creationism, a phenomenon in nature that we can hardly comprehend let alone create ourselves. One of the many examples that support creationism, or *at least* intelligent design.
Presumption that is backed up by a mountain of evidence, of which “intelligent design” has not one shred of. Creationism is based off of the assumptions of people who worship an old book, and does not reflect reality (nor does it care to).
Fungi is absolutely alive. I’m not sure how you can disagree with that. It’s “thick air problems” are not solved consciously by the fungi, but the fungi who are better fit to survive pass on their genetic material. And under the pressure of natural selection, random mutations are selected until the problems are “solved.”
So because something in nature is amazing, therefore God? Nature doesn’t need to conform to your powers of imagination. Beyond this, there is not one reason to believe that this phenomena needed a man in the sky who reads your thoughts to exist. Let me reinforce that; there is evidence for evolution that is independent of your transitory beliefs and cultural practices.
“Intelligent design” may seem like it makes sense, but think about it. If humans (being intelligently designed) were perfectly crafted by a loving god, why are there genetic diseases we are born with? Why are there birth defects if we were “perfectly” crafted? Why does the human eye needs so much internal correction if it is perfect? Examples like this abound in humans and in other animals. None of this is explained by the god hypothesis. If your rebuttal has anything to do with “Because God’s plan…,” or “God works in mysterious ways,” it is not support or evidence.
It’s “thick air problems” are not solved consciously by the fungi, but the fungi who are better fit to survive pass on their genetic material. And under the pressure of natural selection, random mutations are selected until the problems are “solved.”
So then, how many generations do you think the fungus have to get it “right”, before they die off? (Because apparently nothing will eat near poor.) And how many generations would it take to mutate enough times in the right way? Do the math, subtract the two numbers, and tell me if you think there’s probably enough time in this evolutionary hypothesis to have occurred.
In other words, I think they would die off first before evolving. Else, why do they need to evolve? Where are the other generations that didn’t evolve? You see the long string of questions? And this fungus is just one example.
BTW, None of your questions prove that God doesn’t exist. I could try to help you understand some of the reasons a God of Love allows these things, but I honestly doubt you’re interested in hearing them. Maybe I’m wrong?
Hey Steve,
I think it is a common misconception that evolution is driving toward some “right” solution. At any moment a species is adapting to their surroundings. There is no “intelligent design” operating here; organisms are constantly adapting to environmental pressures without ever having a “perfect” solution. That is to say, the process never stops at some goal.
Remember that we are dealing with geologic timescales. We are not talking about one or two generations or even a thousand. There are hundreds of millions of generations occurring over billions of years. You or I cannot even comprehend how long this really is, as we think in terms of our own lifetimes. To answer your question, yes, given that life on Earth has been evolving for billions of years (~3,000,000,0000), there is certainly enough time for evolution to occur.
Also, though evolution naturally selects beneficial genetic traits, it does not make the species somehow invulnerable to dying off. In fact, 99% of all the species that have ever lived on Earth are currently extinct. You are right Steve, many species simply die off while others continue to evolve. Evolution is not a trump card, it merely helps organisms against the odds.
Another misconception is that animals “need” to evolve. Evolution is not a directed process. If an organism is suitably adapted to their conditions, they will remain pretty much the same (barely evolving at all). In fact, we have found a few species that we dub “living fossils” which, when we look at the fossil record, have changed very little over millions of years. However, when the trait is immensely beneficial the process can be extremely rapid (in geologic timescales). For example, we estimate that the evolution of the eye occurred in many separate species in less than 250,000 years.
I was not attempting to disprove God by explaining the workings of evolution, and it is pretty difficult to prove a negative (impossible even). Steve, I have read the entire Bible, I have gone to Catholic schools for 13 years of my life, and I have evaluated the arguments. There is simply no reason for a god to exist in my view. We do not need the god explanation for anything that we observe in the universe. Surely, this does not mean a god does not exist, but it is the least persuasive argument in every case. I would be willing to hear you out, but unless it is something other than a “what if” or “just so” argument, I have heard it all before.
P.S. Was our previous conversation about evolution helpful?
On a purely religious note, I wouldn’t stay a Catholic either ;)
Don’t worry, I never was.
I get it. There is no way to absolutely scientifically prove or disprove God, of course.
I also understand the hypothesis of evolution. But there are too many illogical holes and assumptions that go along with it for me to accept it as a reasonable explanation for life, the universe, and everything (42). I think that evolution is far more far-fetched than creationism. Many other great rational thinkers believe so too, by the way.
You said: Remember that we are dealing with geologic timescales. We are not talking about one or two generations or even a thousand. There are hundreds of millions of generations occurring over billions of years. You or I cannot even comprehend how long this really is, as we think in terms of our own lifetimes. To answer your question, yes, given that life on Earth has been evolving for billions of years (~3,000,000,0000), there is certainly enough time for evolution to occur.
To me, it sounds like science has it’s own “incomprehensible” crutch to fall back on, no? ;) Perhaps there are religious tones in science after all? But I digress. My point is, if some species NEED to adapt or else die, they are on a ticking death-march —- so how fast must they adapt before they die? It’s a general-stated problem, and I used the spores here as a specific example. How long does it take to evolve super speed ejections? Can that evolution happen before the species dies out? And then iff yes, then why did it need to evolve? What advantage did it gain by mutation that led it to be selected over the other unmutated spores?
You could in theory disprove God or his handiwork if the claims about him spilled over into the natural world. For example, pertaining to our discussion, the Biblical account of the diversity of life is false. Branching out a bit, the is no historical (outside of the Bible), archeological, or anthropological evidence for Moses, the Exodus, the Jew’s time in Egypt, among other things. These are instances were at least some of god’s postulates are disproved.
What are these illogical holes? Remember that the validity of a theory does not rest on your being able to make sense of it. Creationism is the far-fetched idea, to be sure. There is a mountain of evidence for evolution coming from the fields of genetics, anthropology, biology, chemistry, physics, geology, ect., while creationism has one ill-written book on the subject that devotes maybe a few paragraphs to it. To suppose that this balance of evidence is the other way around is incorrect.
Just because some other smart people think creationism works means nothing. We have to look to the evidence. Opinion has nothing to say about fact.
What “incomprehensible crutch” are you referring to? I said that it is hard for humans to think about such large time periods, that doesn’t mean that those time periods did not happen. We can estimate how many stars are in the universe without being actually able to understand the massive numbers that return. I merely meant that it is very difficult to conceptualize what a billions years would be like. This does not mean that the evidence does not say billions of years have past (which it does).
As I said in the previous comment, it is a misconception that species “need” to adapt or die. Evolution merely happens without concern for which species die out or not. Speaking to your argument, your are assuming that there is some clock that counts down to when a species will die out, and this simply is not the case. Species go on with their lives, adapt, and respond to outside stimuli. There is no upper limit on how long a species can survive if they continue to adapt (which happens regardless), there are resources available to them, and nothing unexpectedly wipes them out. It’s hard to adapt for a meteor impact, for example.
With the fungi example you are again assuming that “super speed ejections” are some ultimate goal that evolution proceeded towards. It just happens to be that way. There is no will behind it. Indeed, in different circumstances the fungi could have evolved a completely different strategy that had nothing to do with the speedy ejections. Given the state of the universe this is merely what exists today with no goal in mind. That is to say that there likely many more equally valid and successful ways for the fungi to spread its genetic material, but it happened to evolve this one.
Evolution is a constant process. There is no perfect state that a species gets to so that it can never be wiped out. It’s a luck of the draw combined with environmental and genetic factors.
More specifically, talking again about the spores, the speedy ejections were selected for most likely because it allowed the fungi to better spread its genetic material. One small mutation could have led down this path, only slightly improving things, and then over millions of years it has become the trait that we see today. This is just one evolutionary path and other species of fungi have adaptations that are just as diverse.
You said: “It is a misconception that species “need” to adapt or die.”
The science video said: “For our spores to survive, they need to get gobbled up by a grass eater….but they won’t eat grass from an area around any pile of poo, known charmingly as the ‘zone of repugnance’. So the fungus has to launch its spore beyond there, which means clearing over two meters.” Ouch – again that’s from the video you provided. Sounds like the spores have only one (maybe two) generations to get that distance that they need covered.
You continuted: “Evolution merely happens without concern for which species die out or not…..One small mutation [of spores] could have led down this path, only slightly improving things, and then over millions of years it has become the trait that we see today.” Evolution is a slow process, by axiom. So how did this happen to these spores so rapidly?
“Branching out a bit, the is no historical (outside of the Bible), archeological, or anthropological evidence for Moses, the Exodus, the Jew’s time in Egypt, among other things. These are instances were at least some of god’s postulates are disproved.”
Actually, the dead sea scrolls are a fascinating discovery, in that they confirm that the Torah, the holy Jewish text, has remained unchanged for at least over _2000_ years! The differences found between most of the dead sea scrolls and the modern bible Scriptures are *few* and *insignificant*. So, although they do *not* support a claim of “unchanged”, they *do* support a claim of “nearly identical” or “containing no significant change” in comparison to nearly all biblical Scriptures.
“Opinion has nothing to say about fact.” And yet you express yours over and over. Evolution’s “incomprehensible crutch” is that of nearly infinite time. To sum up “Anything can happen in a billion years, and so it did, and here we are with what we got today.” Just like if enough monkeys tapped on a typewriter for long enough, Shakespear’s literature would pop out perfectly in order. Or if you blew up enough printing press buildings, a dictionary would eventually fall out from the rubble. It is incomprehensible, yet it is SOMETHING that doesn’t involve God so it must be true.
Steve, again you are getting this wrong. How do you think fungi developed this trait in the first place? It evolved to the point it is at now through a gradual process of selection. If a species had to adapt or die in “one or two generations” then we wouldn’t have any organisms around at all. Again, there was no goal for the fungi to eventually clear two meters. Fungi have just gotten better and better at it through selection. Millions of years ago these fungi were still around shooting off their spores without having to adapt or die in one or two generations. That is to say, these fungi did not suddenly gain this trait overnight.
Give me your definition of “rapidly.” These fungi have been evolving for hundreds of millions of years. That is clearly enough time for evolution to occur. A “rapid” evolution would be something in the tens of years, not millions.
The Dead Scrolls are indeed a fascinating piece of history, but they do not provide any independent evidence of the events therein. For example, why is there not one Egyptian history that outlines the Jews supposed slavery in Egypt? This was a large event that lasted decades. Lack of evidence in this way is exactly what we would expect if the events never occurred.
The difference here is that my opinion is backed up by scientific fact. Yes, it may seem incomprehensible to you (which does not make it false), but through evolution amazing diversity can spring up over billions of years. Your Shakespeare is another false analogy. Evolution does not simply pick through random mutations and has something complex then pop out. Natural selection picks the beneficial mutations each time a random key is hit, making the process a lot faster and easier to grasp. Using your analogy, evolution is like producing one of Shakespeare’s plays by hitting trillions of random keys and selecting the ones that are in the right order as time goes on. In fact, the process has been attempted via computer program:
As you can see, your analogy is a misconception of how evolution operates. This also applies to you printing press example. You are not understanding the process correctly, and so these false analogies spew out.
What you say and believe about evolution is as much based on faith as Christianity and the belief in creation. Just as you weren’t there at the start of a so called evolved universe, (nor was anyone according to what you believe), you also weren’t there at the creation of the world by the one true God. However there were two other people there only days after he created the rest of the world and it was written down in the bible which is the inspired word God.
So both are really a form of religion whether you would agree with that or not because they are both based on faith. The difference is that the faith in creation is backed by increasingly more scientific evidence, all the time. For instance, based on the rate at which the salinity of the ocean is increasing today, if the earth was billions of years old, by now we would be able to walk across the ocean because there would be so much salt. Also, evolutionists believe that dinosaurs and people didn’t exist at the same time. Why is it then that there are cave drawings all over the planet and pottery with pictures of people with and even riding on dinosaurs? These two examples are only a few of thousands of explanations for a young created earth.
To reference your point in a previous comment you made above, you mentioned that if the bible talks about Moses and the flood, then why isn’t there any evidence of it happening. Aside from the multiple examples in geology that show evidence of a very rapidly forming flood, there is also evidence in writings in places other than in the bible. Ancient Chinese scrolls speak of a great flood down to many of the same details that are spoken of in the bible.
It’s sad for me to hear people who are so much against the idea of creation and the one true God and won’t even give it a chance. This is why I went into teaching science at a Christian school, so that students can hear both sides, side by side and they can choose the one that goes along with what they believe as Christians. I will be praying that you will continue to research more about creation and give God another chance so that I may meet you some day in person when we are both in heaven. God’s blessings to you.